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sgareversebang2015-01-30 06:14 pm
A New Bang!
Hello everyone – your mods have been thinking about the SGA Reversebang, and we wanted to tell you our ideas and get some feedback.
We still want to have an annual challenge that offers the chance to create a good-sized fanwork (art, fic, etc.), but we’d like to manage that differently.
There was some feedback during the last round in 2014, and your mods have had some thoughts, based on the inherent difficulties with the Reversebang’s structure when pinch hitters are needed. These are the issues that have cropped up, and our suggestions.
- Some people thought the 10,000 word count minimum for fics was too long and we should drop it to 5000.
- Your mods are keen to move the challenge to the AO3 for final posting, as coordinating many different people posting to DW and LJ is pretty difficult. We’d provide clear instructions for AO3 posting and tech support if anyone new to AO3 had problems, but it does get rid of the html formatting issues, and makes it a lot easier to do links between primary and complementary works. So the organizing, sign-ups and claiming would still happen on Dreamwidth (with admin posts and notices mirrored on LJ) but the final works would be posted to AO3 (to a specific Collection for the Bang).
- As mods, we also want to suggest making it a more varied Bang – not just about art and stories but including almost any other type of fanwork people want to do. This is a structure that works really well in some other fandoms and it adds variety and diversity, and makes it easier to manage pinch hits because they don’t all have to be 10,000-word stories, which are really hard to pull out of a hat at the 11th hour (speaking from sleep-deprived experience here!) We’d need to change the challenge’s name if we do this, and create a new site for it, linked to the current Reversebang site.
- The way this new challenge would be organized is in two stages. First there’s a “comment party” post put up by the mods on Dreamwidth that calls for people to respond who want to do a more major or “primary” work – could be art, fic, a vid, a podfic, a major craft project, etc. etc. The creator planning a primary work would give some details about their idea – a brief summary of the type and focus of an artwork, or some details about the fic they plan to write, or their amazing plan to build a macaroni sculpture of a puddlejumper. It doesn’t require any of the primary work to be completed, but you do have to decide on a project and describe it in enough detail to get others interested in doing complementary works. Each of these primary post comments then becomes a focus for others to reply (in the same thread) who are interested and want to create some sort of complementary work – again with a wide variety as to what type of complement that might be (fic, art, a vid, a knitted P-90, etc.). So the party post is for ideas, chat, squee, and for people to join in around a primary work. Sometimes there’s a small team of people doing various complements for a primary work, and sometimes it’s more like the Reversebang with a primary work and one main complement being planned. You can see an example of this in The Losers fandom.
Then once the party post has had time to gather in a number of primary creators and their planned complement-makers, there’s a more formal sign-up post – initially just open to the primary creators who give pretty much the same information about their planned primary work – maybe firmed up a bit after the interactions of the party post. We’d also want people at this stage to say whether their work would be gen or pairing-centered and to give the usual warnings as for the Reversebang (they might well already have mentioned this in the party post, but it’d definitely be needed here). A bit later, these primary works posts are opened up to complementary creators to add a comment making a commitment to create a complementary work. So that’s the more definite sign-up post for everyone, whereas the party post is a looser brainstorming place and doesn’t commit people to producing a work. All of this would be happening on Dreamwidth – it needs to be on one site, as otherwise it’s too confusing. - Your mods would also make it clear what sort of minimum size is expected in a primary work or in a complementary work. Your mods’ initial ideas for this are in this Table about the size and variety of works. You can offer to do more than one complement, across more than one primary work.
- The other thing to figure out is when to run this new SGA challenge. We’re going to poll you about that part but it’ll be somewhere from July to September.
So, a lot of new ideas and a few things we want to ask you about – here’s the poll!
The Reversebang's likely to change to a new model as above:
I would definitely want to do a primary work
8 (21.6%)
I would definitely want to do 1 or more complementary works
7 (18.9%)
I might want to do a primary work
19 (51.4%)
I might want to do a complementary work
18 (48.6%)
I'm not interested in taking part
0 (0.0%)
I have other questions or issues with this which I'll put in a comment
4 (10.8%)
I don't want to join in as a creator but I like the sound of these ideas - go for it!
3 (8.1%)
I just read and look at the art, and I don't like this - leave it as is
1 (2.7%)
The new challenge wouldn't just be a "Reversebang" so it'd need a new name - here's my suggestion! (if you suggest more than one name, separate them with semi-colons)
The "comment party" and sign-up posts leading up to the new Bang would take about 3 weeks, then there'd be a further 3 months for works to be created and posted as final drafts. After that there’d be another 3 weeks before the go-live. It’d work for me if the final go-live on AO3 happened in:
July
9 (29.0%)
August
19 (61.3%)
September
15 (48.4%)
Some other or more specific time-period which I’ll explain in a comment
0 (0.0%)
I've seen the proposed table of different types of primary and complementary works:
That looks fine
11 (31.4%)
For a primary fic the minimum word count should be 10,000 words
6 (17.1%)
For a primary fic the minimum word count should be 5,000 words
13 (37.1%)
I don't care what the word count minimum is for fics
6 (17.1%)
I have other suggestions which I'll put in a comment
3 (8.6%)
The "comment party" and sign-up posts would be on Dreamwidth:
Great – Dreamwidth's what I prefer
12 (33.3%)
Dreamwidth's okay
24 (66.7%)
I won't take part – I only use Livejournal
0 (0.0%)
I can use OpenID to join in on Dreamwidth (the mods will explain how)
0 (0.0%)
Final posting of works would be to AO3. (What if you’re not a member of AO3? AO3 has temporarily ceased accepting new members from the automated queue, as an antispam measure, but your mods can still give you an invite code which WILL be accepted):
Yay! - I much prefer using AO3
20 (57.1%)
I'd have posted to AO3 anyway so that'll save me a post
24 (68.6%)
I haven't joined AO3 yet and despite what you say I'm worried I might not be able to enroll
0 (0.0%)
I dislike using AO3 so I won't join the challenge
0 (0.0%)
I've got a different issue that I'll put in a comment
1 (2.9%)
Stargate fandoms aren't as big as they used to be - should we be more inclusive?
Sure, make it an all-Stargate Bang (SG1, SGA and SGU)
18 (50.0%)
No, I just want it to stay an SGA Bang
5 (13.9%)
It can be for SGA and SG1 works, but not SGU
4 (11.1%)
It should focus on SGA, but SG1 and SGU are okay in crossovers
13 (36.1%)
I'm going to discuss this in more detail, in a comment
3 (8.3%)
Thanks for giving feedback! Feel free to ask other questions and raise anything else, in the comments.
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Yes! As stressful as having that deadline looming can be, I have to agree that this is the approach that works best for me too :D
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Creating primaries and complements would be the assignments, with regular check-ins and a definite deadline. - busaikko
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I just wanted to say, having participated to some RBBs as an artist, the schedule seems to me too relaxed for artists and too tight for writers, but now I'm thinking maybe that's just me seeing things?
Anyway, while some art might inspire a 5K-or-so story, to some artwork a 5K words story could be pretty short, particularly if they are collages of a few pictures that give clues for complicated plot bunnies. If an authors feels inspired and wants to pick an artwork like this they could fear they can't do the due date. So, what if you offer options for artists to do the mini-RBB, art shouldn't exceed a x number of pictures/icons/etc and stories would be 5K minimum; then the normal RBB, art can't be a single picture, minimum 2 pictures/15 icons/etc, stories have to be 10K minimum?
He, sorry if that just makes it more complicated. ^^
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Mific is the one with Ante Up Losers experience, so I'll defer to her, but I do know that for this year's AUL there was one writer who posted the first few chapters of a WIP for the bang, and finished at over 100,000 words. If someone is inspired and on fire, that's wonderful! Surpassing the minimums is more than possible. However, one of the reasons we are making changes this year is that it is always hard to find pinch hitters who can write a 10,000 word story (sometimes in as little as a week). We really want to take (some of the ) the pressure off and increase the fun for participants! - busaikko
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The comment party beforehand sounds like you're combining the inspirational and query posts from last round. I found both those posts to be really helpful and supportive, especially since it was my first time participating. Combining them all in one place will be a good thing I think.
I'm on AO3 anyway, so posting there isn't a drama, but I am wondering would that prevent me from also posting to my LJ?
With the loss of the John/Cam thing-a-thon, I think it would be great to include SG-1 crossovers, though I think some guidelines might need to be established, so that SGA isn't overpowered by SG-1 - perhaps stating that an SGA character has to be a clear main character in the pairing/story. EG: John/Cam - yes, John/Ronon - yes, Cam/Teal'c - no, Teyla/SGU character - yes, SGU/SG-1 characters - no.
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There are no restrictions of the art-for-art and fic-for-fic sort. Like the RBB up until now, artworks (and crafts, vids, etc.) can receive fic, so that won't change! What will change is that there could be teams where the primary is a fic and the complements include podfic and interpretive Athosian dance (note: dance is not actually on the chart, but the mods are fairly flexible).
People are more than welcome to go well over the minimums in all categories! Artists can create sets of wallpapers, fic can top 50,000 if inspiration strikes. *offers cupcakes*
- busaikko
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So, while I can't really decide one way or the other, I'm not against the idea of adding the other shows, be it in crossovers or fully on their own.
But I absolutely love that you are doing this! \o/ ^_^ I love that you're making things a bit different, and offering a wider variety of ways to take part. It would be nice if the basic reverse bang element would be among the choices, for those who wish to only do that. For me personally the lowered word count on the fic and the other possible ways to make complementary works are a blessing, since I rarely do 10K fics. (I've only taken part in the old RBB once, last year, and it was totally rewarding but really hard for me! :D) Whatever happens, I'm just very happy and thankful that you're keeping things going, because it's things like this that keep the fandom alive ^_^
Oh, and if it's any help, I have three unused AO3 invitations that can be donated to the cause if needed :)
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With the structure as above, in some ways it really won't be so different from the traditional RBB: if an artist signs on for a primary work, then a writer can choose to join that team and write for the artwork RBB-style. But it also means that there's room for someone to create a fully-functional knitted puddlejumper (SGA fans are talented, it could happen!) and for their team to produce a filk song, a gingerbread Atlantis, and a set of really dirty limericks to go with it. \o/ - busaikko
ETA: Oh, and thank you for your generous offer of AO3 invites! <3 <3 <3
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And yes, you could make your part of this new bang into a version of the Reversebang, no problem - just by choosing an artwork to write something for.
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I didn't answer the deadline/date question as it doesn't matter to me when I need to post.
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I love that you guys have new ideas and a new format and a fresh structure. However, I don't think it has anything to do with the SGA Reversebang. This feels like its own new fest -- which is great btw -- but I don't see any connection to the Reversebang, especially since you want to change the name and basically everything about it. It's a new thing, so put the Reversebang on hold for a year (or perhaps someone else might want to run it?), and open up a new fest.
I like the idea of hosting it on AO3. I like the idea of a party post, although what happens if everyone loves your idea on the party post but no one actually signs up for it on the sign up post? Are you just SOL? Because it's a totally new fest, I wouldn't mind at all if it was SGA/SG1/SGU.
I'm intimidated by your spreadsheet *g* I think forty songs for a fanmix is outrageous. I'm not dismissing your ideas here; I'm not understanding something, maybe? Each team is centered around an idea/concept? Or a fanwork? (Or both?) I feel rather uncreative asking this, but how might one write a fic based off of metalworking/macaroni castles, etc?
So, right. I think this should be its own separate fest, without a link to the reversebang, and therefore without the set of expectations that one might have when signing up for a reversebang (ie, longfic based on art).
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From what I've experienced, most of the people who express definite interest in doing a complement in the party post do sign on, but we'd also have a guarantee that all creators would get a minimum of one complement.
The spreadsheet is totally stolen from elsewhere so it may well contain weirdnesses which is why we need feedback to fine-tune it. I assume by outrageous you mean that's too many tracks required for the fanmix? I don't make fanmixes so I wouldn't know. How many tracks would be a reasonable number for a "primary" project, do you think? 20 songs? (Thinking about how much time and effort a long fic would take to write, or a long podfic to record and edit, or a detailed artwork to finish).
Yes, each team is centered around a primary fanwork. That fanwork will contain various things to inspire people making complements. But the people making complements might not be inspired by the same thing so there's no overall theme for that "team", although the team's generally named after the primary work. So, say Busaikko's art from the last Reversebang was a primary in this new Bang - it would give rise to a team called "Team Space" (the 5 artworks of SGA women against space backgrounds). For complements, someone might write a set of 5 short AU fics setting the women back in the C19th, and another person might do a fanmix with a couple of tracks representing each artwork, and someone else might write meta about women in Stargate canon, and in the history of science. Linked, but not necessarily on the same theme. People can be as varied and creative as they like.
As to "how might one write a fic based off of metalworking/macaroni castles, etc?" - I'm sure it's possible! Like I said, the complement doesn't have to be a literal interpretation of the primary work. It's more like the complementers riff off the team's central work, rather than faithfully interpreting it in some definitive way. I've certainly seen it in reverse, where a primary fic led to a complementer making jewelry for one of the characters, and I've seen knitted complements, although sadly, no one's done the macaroni sculpture thing yet. :)
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I suppose the same might reasonably apply for permission to remix fic (or not).
Would it be reasonable to make those part of the sign-up guidelines?
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I just want to see the SGA fandom survive so am happy for the challenge to include other mediums too , let veryone choose their favourite creative medium.
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For example the manips (1024x768) I did for former Reversebangs - are they wallpapers or 2D art in your definition?
And if another artists sings on for a primary artwork and they are both creating art and none of them fic - in the end they must have 4 wallpapers all together?
But all in all I'm very happy that there will be something for SGA. *g*
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I guess wallpapers are specifically created so as to be wallpapers regarding the dimensions, and sometimes it might mean certain design elements so that desktop icons aren't lost in a too-busy graphic? Something like that! I don't myself think it matters - call them wallpapers if that's what you created them to be (and if people want to admire them purely as 2D art that's great) or call them 2D art and if people can use them as a wallpapers, all to the good.
Your other question was, I think, what if the primary work is art (like wallpapers) and someone does a complement for that art which is also wallpapers? Well, it could happen, but honestly, I've never seen it. People tend to offer complements which are...complementary, by which I mean they add something a little different, they go off at a bit of a tangent in some way. The commonest way to manage that is to do a complement in a different medium. But people do do complements in the same medium as long as they're pretty different from the primary work. Like if you made wallpapers, someone might do a linked icon set as a complement.
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I do like the idea of including all three Stargates(even though I haven't seen SGU) I think it will bring more participants. If you're going to include all of the Stargate shows then I do believe all pairings should be welcomed. After all isn't it the more the merrier? :D
The show(s) and those who love them should have a fun and interesting place to play. I'm thrilled y'all are going to continue.
From #5You can offer to do more than one complement, across more than one primary work.
Will someone be able to make a primary and still offer to do more than one complement too?
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Do you think it would be feasible to set up a Tumblr for the bang that would mirror posts? Since it's not yet possible to subscribe to the RSS for an AO3 Challenge or Community, I've found it's a nice way to be able to follow along or promote a challenge if your participants are not based wholly on LJ or DW. The AnteUp challenge runs a Tumblr, and so do various Marvel bangs I follow.
Plus, it's nice to be able to reblog the art (and vids and podfics and so on) in a more share-friendly medium.
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I'm not really sure how welcome people would be to being reblogged (I assume you mean the art itself, and not just a link); that would have to be something we discussed. Once we do have details and things sorted, a Tumblr might be possible... provided there was a Tumblr-savvy person (i.e., not me) to run it. - busaikko
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I have been in SGA fandom for a long time but I'm back after a long break. I've never done anything like a big bang or a reversebang but I was thinking it would be a great way to feel like part of fandom again (I don't really know anyone active in fandom anymore. I just have two concerns:
1.) I mostly only do gen and I'm not comfortable with het or slash. I know the majority of fandom aims toward slash. Is there a way to be sure I'd only have to write gen?
2.) I never join these things because I always feel *I* am not good enough and I will let down whoever my work gets paired with. Is that a reasonable fear? Is it better to only join these events if someone knows their work is up to par?
As for your questions:
I think I prefer longer fic (10,000) for events such as these but I have to be honest that I'm not who I once was. I have a job and kids and I think 5,000 is about what I can do on a tight schedule. I wonder if part of the problem of finding people for the longer stories is (1) the time frame and (2) many of us are in a different place than we were at the height of fandom some 5-10 years ago and thus 10,000 is not as doable as it once was.
For comparison sake, I can write a 5,000 word story in a day or two when inspiration strikes. I'd want more to be sure to write as quality a fic as I am able. 10,000 words takes me at least two weeks to a month and much longer for quality. This of course depends on the time of year and whether it is crunch time at work. I am unsure what timeline you are looking at.
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I think everyone worries about the quality of the final fanwork, but we want this to be fun and reasonably low-pressure so we're keen for people to have a go. I think the main solution for those worries is to get a beta to help you finalize the fic - and people often join the teams centered around primary fanworks purely so as to cheerlead, beta or be whip-crackers (for those creators that like being chivvied!). So there could well be at least one team member who'd be happy to be a sounding-board and beta.
As to the Gen issue, that's your choice of course. If you're doing a primary work you get to control that, and you could make it clear in the comment party stage right at the start that it'd be a Gen work and you'd pefer complements also to be Gen. If you wanted to do a complement rather than a primary work, you could still write something Gen, but many of those works will be pairing-centered (although hopefully some will be Gen, and het, and femslash, etc. etc., as we'd like there to be variety and there are plenty of people who prefer creating works other than slash). Your own work could still be Gen, even if a pairing was implied in the primary work - works are often open to interpretation, e.g. showing 2 characters who might be friends rather than a couple, and you could take that off in a Gen direction. - cheers, Mific
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(Anonymous) 2015-01-31 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)Wow...that sounded way dirtier than I meant it!
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"Are crossovers allowed?
Crossovers with Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe are allowed, but the focus of the piece must be on the Atlantis characters. Artists, keep in mind that if your crossover is very specific, it could make it more difficult for an author to claim your piece. Also, authors are not obligated to write crossovers with other fandoms. This is an SGA challenge, so authors can't be expected to be familiar with other fandoms."
The problem in deviating from that to allow free-for-all crossovers, is that the complement-makers join the challenge expecting to do something for SGA - or maybe at least a Stargate fandom. They can't be expected to know the non-Stargate fandom at all so you might not get anyone wanting to do complementary works. However, in the proposed structure, I guess the comment party phase would let you know if anyone knew the other fandom and was interested in doing a complement. If no one was keen, it might be better not to then sign on to this challenge (there are multifandom crossover challenges around).
However, the SGA fans involved in this Bang might not want SGA diluted with a non-Stargate fandom, what with there not currently being any other Big Bangs in SGA. So let's see if anyone replies to this to comment further.
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Sometimes a picture hits me, sometimes word prompts give more ideas. Even simple ones.
And for people who find it hard to write long fics... If you have bingo cards with 10 pics/words maybe around 500 words each? If it has a theme it could end up being a story in itself. And if you can't use all 10 pics to meet 5K minimum maybe 5 pics with 1K each to meet the 5K minimum. Trust me I wrote a fic of 100 drabbles coming up to 49K and it was one story for Kag/Sess http://www.dokuga.com/fanfiction/story/7166/1
Dokuga has promoted Themes like ice cream flavours, gemstones, virtues, vices, colours, holidays (easter, Christmas, Halloween), seasons
And I'm a real big fan of crossovers. Yes it should be SGA core but I like bringing in characters from other fandoms to Atlantis. If there is a primary pairing it should have at least one canon SGA character.
Already?
I have mixed feelings about the 5000 K limit, but maybe keep it at 10,000, but no penalize people if it's still over 5000?
Also, I'd like to sign up as a pinch hitter this year. I noticed that a lot of art that received pinch hitters last year was definitely something I could have related to, and wrote a story fairly quickly. It was my own story that I got all tangled up/over-emotionally invested in. I believe that more distance would have let me write more clearly, but as
So, in a way, I'd prefer to be able to write a story but not have to officially claim the art - maybe that Artist would like an extra story for their art, maybe not. The whole claiming process last year really put me off - when I was ready to start writing a story, I had to wait until I actually claimed the art. Then, I got lost trying to figure out how to write a POV (limited) that would never have occurred to me.
Also? I got tangled up in the definition of 'slash' and 'happy endings'. To me, a slash pairing really is only there if some explicit action (dialogue, sex) takes place. If feelings exist, but aren't commented by the main character involved in the pairing, there is no evidence beyond what the reader sees. And happy endings, especially in stories where it's not clear if the primary 'pairing' are together or not in a settled relationship, means there's still a possibility, and hey, nobody died!
Moving on, this brings me to requests that Artists make regarding stories for their Art. Wasn't it done, as some unspecified time in the past, mentioned that the Artist's not even state the title of their piece to ensure that the writer could find inspiration without restrictions on what they take away from the piece? Going with that theme, too many restrictions discourage people from participating as writers. For example, last year I read several comments around LJ and DW on how the SGA ReverseBang came across more like a Secret Santa, and how they chose not to participate after they saw what they believed were requirements in a story for each piece of art.
I've been speaking a lot with
As for Art, the amount of Art equating how many word? Well, that won't work since the writer doesn't see the extant of the art before the actual claiming. At least, not last year? I don't know how it worked in previous years. My suggestion is that the artists make their art available to all who sign up as writers even before the claiming process - this way they can see if they feel inspired right away. If, later, too many people try to claim the same piece of art then the mods will know they have pinch hitters for it already on standby.
Heck, I still have a story I'd love to write for 'Puddlejumper Variations', but had to place it on the backburner because I chose to write for the more difficult artwork first. In the end, a pinch hitter had to come in for that particular art, and I felt guilty as hell, like I should be going to Hell, you know what I mean?
In cases where the RB story serves as an extract to a longer piece? As long as the piece in question is a complete movement (music, sorry), with a beginning, middle, and end (even it starts in the middle), would be great! Four of us our getting roped into modding the WIP Big Bang, where people can finish their unfinished works, pretty soon. I see no reason why these can't carry some crossover.
I learned a lot last year. More than I thought possible. I was mostly terrified that I would be banned from future participation because I couldn't get my story done on time.
I have a million ideas, but until someone lets me know how much they will fit in I'm reluctant to say (for fear of looking really, really stupid - which I'm not, but hey!).
As far as opening it up to all things in the SG Universe? I don't have a problem with it as long as there's an emphasis on SGA characters. I don't see this being a problem since whenever Team Shep goes to Earth there's always some cross-over. ::head-keyboard-smack::
All right. I've said enough for now. Ping me if any of my ideas have merit, or you think I've missed something.
As for drabbles? I really can't see myself writing drabbles, I simply get too involved in the project. I can see, however, generating shorts to go with Icons, or smaller-yet-connected, pieces of artwork as POV switches, out-takes, and so on.
- Innogen
p.s. I still have a Universe to write around last years' RB story. Believe it or not - that might make it into the WIP BB. Also, I still have to figure out how to write decent sex scenes. *GAH*
signups
(Anonymous) 2015-05-11 11:13 am (UTC)(link)